SNAIL

Meeuw · Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:47 pm Post subject:

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:41 pm by backfire

I must say meeuw, looking at the pictures, the front is nice and round, where as yours is still rather flat. It looks like mr barbot had some very good sheet metal workers. But I am very pleased to see all the effort you put in your barbot, because for me this is the best looking race version of the 2cv. Would be great to see it on franchorchamps
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Meeuw · Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:48 pm Post subject:

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:36 am by Meeuw

Hi Backfire,

The part with the grille has been cut off. I need to weld it on the body again..... When re-attaching it I need to press the upper left- and rightside of the grille towards each other (so it fits the bonnet)..... This will cause the nice curve that the Barbot also had.

Thanks for the compliment
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Imagination is more important than knowledge (Einstein)

Meeuw · Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:48 pm Post subject:

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:00 pm by Markus

have you seen this picutre on the bottom right? What is this for a hole in the bonnet? For the ignition coil?

http://lescanardssauvages2cvclub.chez.com/nostalgia/barbot.htm

About the shape of the bonnet is your work very near to the original much more than all the other replicas. I'm looking forward to see more pictures. What kind of chassis will you take?
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Imagination is more important than knowledge (Einstein)

Meeuw · Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:49 pm Post subject:

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:14 pm by Backfire

If I am not mistaken the Yacco en the 80 are build for different races. So maybe this hood is to change ignition coil quick when overheating for 24 hours racing?
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Imagination is more important than knowledge (Einstein)

Meeuw · Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:50 pm Post subject:

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:50 pm by Meeuw

@ Josef,

Thanks! I'm trying to do my best Rolling Eyes The response is also verry welcome and the photographic 'input' from Etienne is also a great help.... With only one picture he already solved a lot of my questions.

@ Markus,

Sharp remark! The second car has this hole.... But....., changing the coils is not possible.... Barbot used two ignition coils and they are located on the left and right side of the (shortened) headlight bar.

The hole is believed for checking and refilling the oil during interfalls....

The chassis will be original. I am still trying to get the best solution but I think I will do the following:

Because the car is lowered, the front and rear trailing arms will come more horizontally. This increases the wheelbase (this is what I don't want). The central tube of the front trailing arms will be placed 125mm to the back, the central tube of the rear trailing arms will be placed 125mm to the front (see the picture...) Now I can use the standard U shaped bars which connects the tubes to the chassis.

This means that I have to drill 4 extra holes in the chassis to bolt the tubes to the chassis and I will strengthen the chassis on those 4 places the same way Citroen did. The central dampers will remain in place.

Now the fun part..... the Barbot is 250mm shorter than an oringinal A type but 2x125mm wil get me the so desired shortening. An A chassis is too long but using an AU chassis (which is 260mm shorter at the end) will almost be a perfect fit for the (also) shorter body!

@ Backfire,

You're right, the cars where built for different races. This is why there are pictures with the entire bonnet flipped open and also pictures with the hole in the bonnet.
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Imagination is more important than knowledge (Einstein)

Meeuw · Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:50 pm Post subject:

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:34 am by Jozef

Hmm, interesting.

So, moving both axles means that the engine gearbox will be further back.
I guess that helps when having a channeled body and super flat bonnet to tuck the engine in without clearance problems ?

And it would also help cornering, as it will move engine weight towards the center of the chassis

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

This is the end of the history till now. Please feel free to add your remarks! Cool

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Imagination is more important than knowledge (Einstein)

JoZeF · Grave Digger Joined: 25 May 2007 Posts: 1734

wow you've been busy Laughing

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"That bumper fits there like sunglasses on pig" Laughing

O.E.

markus · Snailer Joined: 04 Aug 2009 Posts: 21 Location: Vienna

Now I had the time to read the entire story of your projekt - I love this perfectionism. About the color I want to mention that in the 50ies they used nitro based paint and this paint is - without polishing it - not shiny. You need hours of time to get it shiny.
About the chassis: When you move the front axle back, you have to change the complete front with bumper mounting and front bar. Do you think they did this on the original? It will be a lot of work only to shorten the wheelbase. I would think they did some work on the center part of the chassis - incl. lowering this part. The inner construction of the chassis is made for the specific fixing points of the axles. When you move them, the stability could be weaken.

Meeuw · Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:34 am Post subject:

Markus,

I sold the nitro-cellulose laquer in the 90's and learned how to work with it. The major difficulty is that it is banned in the Netherlands as a car paint...

In my opinion N-C paint gives a nicer patina to the car but I need to find the paint. My old employer is one of the largest resellers in the Netherlands and he can't sell it to me Crying or Very sad

About the front axle I'm not sure what to do....

As you've seen on the picture on page 3 the engine is not put backwards but placed on its original stuts. So the option of putting the engine more to the back is dropped by me.

On the other hand, If I open the boxed section of the chassis I can strengthen it without any viewable changes from the outside. Cutting the chassis in the middle, stepping the chassis and rewelding it is not an option. Besides all the work I also have to re position the support of the central damper.

Placing the front axle backwards does give a problem with the mounting of the gearbox but it's is easy to solve that. The gearbox is mounted on only two bolts and replacing this by a little strut is quite easy to do.

Of course all the work wil have it's advantages and disadvantages Confused

This is why I am still searching for info how Barbot did it...
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Imagination is more important than knowledge (Einstein)

markus · Snailer Joined: 04 Aug 2009 Posts: 21 Location: Vienna

I'm sure you know the special version of suspension built from 54-55 with the open springs. This system has only one fixing point on the chassis instead of two of the traditional suspension. That means, changes of the chassis length can be executet "easily". Also the length of the springs kan be varried. Perhaps citroen used this suspension system on their cars because of the succsess in the barbot special??? Who knows. If you need pics, I have this suspension on my car.

Meeuw · Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:08 am Post subject:

Markus,

I've seen the suspension you mentioned before but I don't have pictures of it. If you PM me I'll give you my email adress. Very Happy

Anyway, yesterday Etienne showed me some pictures of channeled and normally lowered cars (again thanks Etienne) and it looks clearly that the Barbot is channeled. This means that the suspension interferes with the floorpanels so I need to find a way to get everything as small as possible. Maybe the open spring version helps........

One moment of thought: I've seen a picture of the racer (the '80' version) cornering. The body was still tilted so the suspension is not as hard as I thougth.
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Imagination is more important than knowledge (Einstein)

SamClukkers · Lowered Joined: 23 Jun 2007 Posts: 774 Location: Belgium

You seem to be doing a very good job on the bonnet! Perfectionism is the only way to go, good luck.

Here are some photos by Woody:

The open spring suspension is a bit longer (I guess that's why they moved it to the front), but the diameter is quite a bit smaller compared to the original A suspension. Here's a photo of mine.

Sam

markus · Snailer Joined: 04 Aug 2009 Posts: 21 Location: Vienna

I have very similar pictures. Is this enough or do you need more details? But I think you can imagine now how it looks and works. maybe Barbot created a kind of prototype of this suspension system which is taken to series produktion in 1954.

Meeuw · Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:20 pm Post subject:

Sam, Markus,

Thanks both for the pictures and the feedback. If one of you have a picture of the connection spring/rod (the spring connected to the long rod) than I would be verry pleased.

These photo's pointed me on a verry (im mean verry... Exclamation

) important piece of information on how the car is built!!!! On the pictures of the car you see a bolt just behind the doors. This is the end of the reinforcement bar you see on the A chassis. Measuring this distance also gives the amount of millimeters the car is channeled and even more......

Will do the measurements tomorrow, driving up and down to Switserland in one weekend made me a bit tired Wink

(Yes Sam, I collected the rims... Again thank you so much!)
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Imagination is more important than knowledge (Einstein)

markus · Snailer Joined: 04 Aug 2009 Posts: 21 Location: Vienna

Have a look at this link. On page 100 - 103 there are some detail drawings. I think you can imagine better than on photos

http://www.unipress.waw.pl/~pielasze/2cv/citroen_ddr_2cv.pdf